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Maximum security for former COs

 

Subscribe to Maximum security for former COs 29 posts, 11 voices

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Getty_rf_photo_of_cat_and_praying_mantis Campi 227 posts

Your right because if I was to go to prison before my first year I would ahve united all the gangs and would be supreme ruler of the prison. The Warden and Major as well as the Central Office would have to run things by me before they do it. =D

 
Male_user Squeeze 135 posts

Again, different insttutions operate differently. In our classification system we use what the NIC calls “Objective Jail Classification”. This is a points based instrument using Objective questions with the option of overides due to different factors. There are systems called decision trees (I personally like them) that look at objective facts like past assault convictions ect… Either systems or instruments have faults and strengths. In the case of AC/pc these are security classes that are based on other factors. Some places call them “Close Custody”. What ever works for your facility. It does help to know some of the repeat offenders but it is difficult to know 10,000 of them as we are a medium sized jail (1400) and population (500k).I know some of the repeat offenders because of my past emloyement but not all class spc do. ACA reqiuirements for P/C’s state they have to be out of cell roughly equal to GP. Not all facilities have the time or space to do so. Our state jaild standards state 1 hour a day 5 days a week as minimum time out, but since we are accredited we adhere to the more lenient standard. Then ICE has their standards as well as PREA. We folow ACA standards for our Close Custody(A/C Admin Confinement).

 
Female_user Lauren 5 posts

Oh gosh looks like a real discussion has been kicked off.
We do have PC and AS distinglished as separate classifications. However since both require very tight controlling we house them as maximum security. Since we cannot have one inmate walk around unrestrained in maximum security everyone is having the full treatment.
Actually PC is allowed for extra hours in library cells an yard hours compared to the usual AS inmate.

 
Male_user RCJ 49 posts

squeeze, a lot of our classification system relies on what the inmates say upon the intake process. If an inmate states that there is a problem the facility airs on the Side of caution and rightfully so. It is my belief that you need to know these idiots the best you can and any kind of Intel that you can obtain is key.

 
Male_user Squeeze 135 posts

No offense taken. I realize that we are called different things in different locations. I apologize about my long winded resume just wanted to let you know I’m not some new kid out of college and mush for brains( no offense college kids). I went back and got my degree, BA in CJ Quit working on masters because of cost and I have 1 left at home of 6 kids. Many places won’t even let you apply for a Class SPC. unless your line staff super or 5 years experience because you need to understand the culture of your facility and priinciples of classification and how it serves your staff and jail/prison. But we are just a cog in the bigger machine and we can make a difference for the officers and supers daily lives, or we can make it hell too. Ill. does your facility separate gang members? We don’t, we tell them they are adults and they can act like adults or they can do the banging thing and WE will deal with them! Nebraska doesn’t have much patience with idiots or bangers. They may end up in a cell with a rival gang member and they can get along or not, if not WE will deal with it.This philosophy has worked well for us but occasionally we have individual problem but WE deal with it. I absolutely rely on line staff to do my job and the better the officers/supers the better we do our jobs. We have to have each others backs/fronts and sides!!

 
Male_user RCJ 49 posts

Squeeze, no offense intended from my last post, I just never heard of these titles. I wish where I come from that there would be more input accepted form the line but oh well. Anyhow, 6 years and I’m done if I have anything to say about it.

 
Male_user Squeeze 135 posts

Where are you located, I want to be there. I can retire in March :-)

 
Barney-fife-238x300 knuckle dragger 42 posts

Nope…..only been through three wardens in twenty-five years. All followed the same style and idealogy.

 
Male_user Squeeze 135 posts

We all make mistakes every now and then, I just hope mine don’t have a consequence that hurts one of our officers. I learn alot from these forums. There are different types of classification systems employed in jails. Different ways to deal with the issue of former officers incarcerated. None of them are wrong just what may work for your facility. I miss being an officer and line staff supervisor. I am in a position that I love but have no upward mobility because of a change of institutional command that changed the command structure of our department. I can’t even apply for my own department supervisors position because I am no longer a uniformed officer. but i love my job.

I might ask this question of some of you here. We here in our facility get a new Director about every 3-4 years. this makes it difficult for any kind of continuity of command style or policy. We are accredited (ACA) but each time we get a new director the new DR. wants things done their way. Is anyone out there experiencing this phenomenon or is this unique to our facility?

 
Brett_in_control Brett.Ohnstad 7 posts

I think it is great that this site is a resource that offers an unfiltered voice of those that have worked the front line and it is offering decades upon decades of experience and advice. Corrections work can be pretty insular and what may seem like a good idea, in this case having a policy of placing former COs in maximum security, can be turned around in the light of the experienced expert advice offered here by the likes of Sqeeze, Knuckledrager and RCJ and others. Awesome stuff.

Now I gotta go and talk to the Bobs

 
Barney-fife-238x300 knuckle dragger 42 posts

Squeeze………..You got my vote no bullshit from me. I’m a hammerhead and usually had to figure this crap out on my own, I made alot of mistakes and still do. It’s nice hear hear a CO. with an honest stand up attempt to get what they want, and it sounds like you did it on your own, without the perfunctory Upper echelon pole smoking a majority of people do to improve thier position.

 
Male_user Squeeze 135 posts

I spent 18 years as an officer and command staff in 3 prisons and a smaller local jail. I also spent a year as a sheriff deputy in that same small county in WA state. I moved back to the midwest due to family issues and went back to work in the largest jail in our state. I worked my way up the CO ladder when my institution instituted a Classification Department. I had some experience with classification in the prisons I worked in but not jails. I was the first one hired as a classification specialist and was provided no training as to the concepts, policies or protocols of classification pricipals. I networked with other facilities, NIC experts, AJA (American Jail Association) and people I have met over the last 31 yrs to educate myself. I have become a student of behavior of incarcerated people ( as most experienced co’s will with time) and understand the subculture of criminals and inmates. I am not the sharpest tool in the shed but I have worked hard to learn from my fellow officers, that is why you need to be on this website to learn from other officers from other facilities (Irish, Knuckle and others here on this site). I can only offer my experiences and observations but it helps to hear from thers too. I found that what I do helps the officers I work with in their daily work, reduces critical incidents and puts all the birds of the same feather in the same nests so to speak. If you know as an officer your going into a housing unit full of older inmates(not convicts, there is a difference)your day will go much better than a units full of pretrial 18-30 year olds. I wish i could say I’m really good at what i do but that has to be judged by my fellow officers. like I said i’m just not that shrp, I just work harder for those officers.

 
Barney-fife-238x300 knuckle dragger 42 posts

RCJ……….A county jail I worked at for years used only Caseworkers to classify inmates. The only problem was they were not as familiar with certain inmates who were trouble makers and they often placed the inmates in units that were not suitable. I would rather have a combination of COs caseworkers and supervisors do the classification to get an all around evaluation.

 
Male_user RCJ 49 posts

Knuckledragger and Squeeze, where I work the CO’s have nothing to do with the classification system and that is the reason for my questions. Sometimes we are asked for input on reclassification of an inmate, or a repeat offender that we the CO’s have knowledge about from previous dealings. I have never heard of any of these titles and that’s why I question their origin. Anyhow, I guess if it works out in the end, that is all we can ask and hope for.

 
Barney-fife-238x300 knuckle dragger 42 posts

RCJ……….Our facility has a similar job classification but they are termed different. One example, a CO who classifies inmates is called a” Security unit classification knowledge and system specialist 1.” A similar title but higher level job class is a,” Building liaison officer with main entry 1. Both job classifications require officers to have special personalized training usually one to one with administrative officers. Because of the higher level of pay and responsibility most Cos who try to attain these job classes have to work closely with administrative personnel and are removed from the main stream, line officer positions, and are placed in a,” security network intelligence team control highway”, this is a facility team that closely regulates and surveys staff and inmate information not only for inmate classification but staff job placement as well. I believe you only have to be able to read and write to apply with no special education requirements, I’m not sure if other states have the same job classifications.

 
Male_user RCJ 49 posts

Squeeze, how do you become a Classification Specialist? Is it through specialized training or is it through continued education? I’m assuming that it’s not some a position fabricated by the administration.

 
Barney-fife-238x300 knuckle dragger 42 posts

Squeeze……. Well said, and don’t get me wrong there’s still PC it’s just not called that anymore. The facility is well aware of civil rights violations and they usually error on the safe side and go overboard to make sure an inmate is fat and happy. If a high level media known former CO, COP, government official can’t be placed they do have compacts with in and out state facilities.

 
Male_user Squeeze 135 posts

As a Classification Specialist I find the situation a high risk liability to allow a former corrections or LEO in the general population of a facility. Protective Custody is more appropriate housing assignment. With protective custody the inmate enjoys all the benefits of out of cell time as GP but with the added security of a more controlled enviorment. Secondly if the inmate is a former employee of that particular facility an exchange with another facility would be even more appropriate. I am speaking here of jails not prisons. Even state facilities have compacts with other states to exchange prisoners to enhance the safety of that particular inmate. As for interactions with those inmates, it can be very dangerous (not necessarily physically) for officers who have had personal working relationships with those former officers. In our facility we utilize other county jails to “safe keep” those inmates. The law requires we take “reasonable” measures to provide a safe enviorment, I do not understand a facility which would not do so. Liability is such a dangerous fellow. Anyone who knows what a “1983” action is understands.

 
Barney-fife-238x300 knuckle dragger 42 posts

Brett Ohnstad…………..You’re on the mark, “you’re a real straight shooter with upper management potential written all over you.” Classification should be determined by past history, mental and physical limitations, assaults on staff, Etc. Just because an inmate may have a past with law enforcement or corrections experience it doesn’t mean they will necessarily have an edge on anyone else. I’ve known inmates with many years under their belt that know the system better than some of the COs. As you have probably witnessed over the years often the inmates know what’s going on before the COs do. Protective custody is almost non-existent in our system the powers that be are trying to place inmates into units that will be beneficial to the inmate. If a unit proves to be a bad fit for the inmate he is moved to a different one. If all else fails and the inmate is an assault risk or has difficult mental problems they usually end up in a high observation unit on “double secret probation,” In a 23 hour closed unit and close supervision. This is just another way of placing inmates on PC but as a different so called classification. If an inmate has past corrections or police experience it doesn’t play into it much, they are treated like any other inmate and if problems arise they are dealt with on a case by case basis.

 
Brett_in_control Brett.Ohnstad 7 posts

It may be impossible to completely eliminate the potential of having an incarcerated officer from having contact with a former detainee, moving that person to another facility can serve several purposes with the goal of affording the ex-officer the same level of treatment as is offered to every other inmate without undue added cost or burden on the facility while maintaining a high level of safety and security.

While you cannot completely isolate the ex-officer completely just through moving that person, it would be possible to lower the number of contacts to a more manageable level. As an example; we incarcerate inmates of all different gang associations. A gang affiliation alone does not warrant placement of the individual on Administrative Segregation. If we as officers have tried to house the ex-officer in a general population or similar and cannot provide for that person’s complete protection then the option would be to place that person in Protective Custody (rather than Administrative Segregation), the same as any other vulnerable inmate would be treated.

Many facilities have a policy that indicates that an officer needs to report to management if they are supervising an inmate that they are related to or with whom they are a personal acquaintance. This is to help prevent bias and impartial treatment toward the inmate by the officer(s), both positive and negative. Even on Administrative Segregation, the ex-officer incarcerated in the facility in which they had previously worked would be susceptible to this bias due to the established relationships with current staff. Placement in a different facility would diminish this possibility and prevent accusations of unfair treatment.

This does not mean Administrative Segregation is not an option for incarceration of the ex-officer, it should not be considered the first or only option to achieve the facilities primary goal.

 
Male_user BroncosFan 17 posts

Recidivists do time but not always at the same facility. A former corrections or leo will have little chance of never being housed with an inmate they once supervised. No facility wants a brutal attack based on an inmates previous employment. For this reason I feel ad seg is the best option.

 
Male_user RCJ 49 posts

Brett Ohnstad, that was very well put, I wish that we had more guys that think that way. Anyhow the Libs will never agree with you so it is what it is.

 
Brett_in_control Brett.Ohnstad 7 posts

Any inmate coming into a facility for incarceration needs to be classified equally and fairly based on their past criminal behavior and incarceration history and not based on their previous legitimate job history. Having a “security background” does not automatically mean that this person is an escape or security risk. Putting extra resources into monitoring one person based on the fear that they might do something nefariously with their security knowledge is a waste of time and taxpayer money. It would be better policy to act as though every inmate has a intricate knowledge of security procedures rather than be distracted by focusing only on select individuals. The correctional officers should treat the individual the same as every other inmate and let that person’s actions as an inmate dictate how they are treated and housed.

Another concern for the facility could be possible litigation brought by the individual for undue punishment based on information illegitimately obtained by the facility concerning employment history.

If however the individual was a former employee at the facility, administrative segregation might be the better policy if placing that person in a different facility was not feasible. This would not be due to that person’s knowledge of the facilities security procedures. It would be done in an attempt to prevent the conflict of having an individual placed with inmates that they previously supervised, officers supervising a former co-worker, and to prevent the personal information of current officers and employees from being disseminated, either intentionally or otherwise, by the former employee. For these and other reasons, placement in an different facility would be preferred over administrative segregation.

 
Female_user oyochickporvida 3 posts

Putting an inmate in ad-seg with full restraints, and 3 CO’s simply because they are a former officer, seems like serious overkill to me. Was he/she a mass murderer? I don’t know about your facility, but we simply don’t have the resources to do that. Besides, all inmates should be treated as if they could have “special knowledge” to escape and/or kill you. In our state, cops are put on an SNY yard for their own safety, because mainline inmates will probably try to hurt, extort, or kill them. Most are cooperative and just want to do their time. They’ve been on the other side, and they know most CO’s are just there to do their 8 and hit the gate. That being said, an inmate is an inmate, and they all should be treated according to their behavior.

 
Female_user cbulla1 1 post

Hello. I am a Criminal Justice student in college, and for my Corrections Systems and Practices class, I have to interview someone that has or currently works in corrections. I admire those that have the patience and dedication to work in this field because I know that not everyone is cut out for it. I would greatly appreciate the help of anyone who is interested. My interview can be done completely over email correspondence. Thank you to anyone who has the time, it is much appreciated. Please contact me at cbulla1@cougarmail.collin.edu

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