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opinions on self defense in corrections

 

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Svt FordSVT 60 posts

Great topic here.
Self defence in critical for officer safety. We all need to be able to protect each other.
When needed, I have no issues using empty hand controls, OC Spray or Taser to win.
We must always win in any situation. Many staff don’t employ the techniques. They don’t like physical force. I for one, love it.
I do practice MMA, and love to hit the gym. We should have more training in this practice.

 
Male user frydd666 22 posts

I agree with igoturback, when it is all said and done, I plan to be the one going home and not in a bag. I try to talk first, but if I am attacked, then I will kick, bite, pull, rip, gouge, and hit anything I can find. I work in a jail and for most shifts, if a fight starts, I will have deputies with Tasers behind me, but if the occasion should arise where I am trapped, then it is all out fight until one of us can’t get up. There is a move in Kung Fu called Monkey grabs the peach, and once it is started, it works very well and will usually take the fight right out of a man.

 
Female user cranei 1 post

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Male user DT-Instructor 2 posts

“Most fights end up on the ground” so where are the statistics for “Most Fights”? As far as I know the only study conducted regarding this issue was from the LAPD during the mid 90’s. It involved resistive/combative suspects, the study found that around 66% of these altercations ended on the ground. Beacause the officers were taught to cuff from this position.

In my agency our lesson plans actually tell us to take the inmate to the ground, to limit his/her options and gain control. That is not an open invitation to grapple with inmates. I agree the UFC has shown the effective skills of grappling, when you’re 1 on 1 with a referee available to stop the fight. When you’re in a pod, dorm or cellblock the last place you should be is knotted up with an inmate, like 2 cats.

Now, I do train in and teach MMA myself and it is very beneficial to learn for self-defense. Any time you can fight from any range you’re giving yourself options, not to mention the physical fitness necesssary to survive a confrontation. But, again in a prison I would suggest NOT grappling with an inmate unless you have the numbers on your side and are trying to gain control.

As far as a use of force curriculum and policy it should reflect the dynamic nature of use of force situations. It should also factor in fight or flight and special circumstances (ie. age, gender, size, relative strength, multiple attackers/officers, weapons and being on the ground). Staff should have the options available to defend themselves, but also to control inmate behavior, since this is in their job description.

As mentioned earlier in this thread report writing is the key. Write what you did and why you did it.

 
41153535 61942244 Igoturback 25 posts

bottom line is I / you do whatever it takes to make sure I / or you are going home .

 
Male user Correctionator 8 posts

The popularity of Ultimate Fighting Championship has alerted EVERYONE to how effective good grappling skills are. Even people who don’t train are familiar with ground and pound strategy and can mimic it to some degree when fighting. So yea, lots of fights end up on the ground and traditional martial arts classes just don’t cut it. Unfortunately that’s all we have in my area so I’m crap out of luck. COGrim, you need to come train our department. There’s a case of beer in it for ya!

 
Female user readyset 5 posts

I hear what you are saying COGRIM. Our defensive tactics training officer is involved in MMA. Something he said about it stuck with me and I think about it a lot when I do the “what if” thought process. He said most fights end up on the ground anyways.

 
Knight jollyemt 5 posts

@york_aw
I’m an EMT, but I have a very good knowledge of self-defense, disarming opponents, ect. Although I rarely have to get pyshical with an inmate, I have no issue putting them on the ground. I have a lot of good friends where I work, who will all take an inmate down for me. However, I’m an ex-Navy SEAL. I can handle them on my own (9/10 times). I think every single officer in corrections should have at least a basic knowledge of self defense. It could save your life.
As for a story, here’s one. This guy had got stabbed by another inmate. And myself and my partner were trying to patch him up so we could get him to Medical. Well he thought he was gonna be a bad a$$, pulled his own weapon out, and proceeded to threaten myself and my partner with it. Before I even had a chance to react, one of the Sergeants in the area tazed him and three other officers had him on the ground.

 
Oldpics 229 COGrim 25 posts

There’s a discussion on this topic in the Education forum. As a fighter, fight trainer, martial arts instructor and certified law enforcement SSGT instructor, I have some very strong feelings on this matter. Keep in mind that ANY technique, ANY move not specifically prescribed, endorsed or taught to you by your agency opens you up to liability. If my life is in peril, all bets are off. But in any situation where a CO must defend him or herself, a job-specific fight skillset is vital. It must be simple, practical, and COURT DEFENSIBLE. You fight like you train. If you train in a karate style, you better be disciplined enough to refrain from kicking an inmate in the throat for just grabbing at your sleeve. Aikido, Jujitsu, Judo and just plain wrestling can be GREAT training for any law enforcement personnel. Just keep in mind proper use of force levels and concentrate on the PRACTICAL aspects of the art. Outside of law-enforcement-specific systems, MMA is hands down the best training. It is reality-based, practical and simple. It covers all aspects of the fight and it’s martial arts stripped of all the fancy tomfoolery (example: Tae Kwon Do) that will just get you either in trouble or outright killled. All that said, it is the responsibility of your department to provide the proper training for your job. There are several systems tailored to law enforcement- SSGT, LOCKDOWN, PPCT/Warrior Science are 3 good examples. As an SSGT instructor, I’m a bit biased towards it- but find out what is available in your area and insist on this training. We work in an environment where we are constantly outnumbered by people who aren’t the nicest, most predictible citizens. It’s very often dangerous and deadly work. I am constantly amazed and dismayed at the number of lazy, fat, out-of-shape CO’s who couldn’t care less about training or learning defense technique. If your department doesn’t provide you with good training- INSIST that they do! Your apathy- AND your agency’s indifference can cost you your life.

 
Mccorquodale badge FOPvp1az2rsk 2 posts

Look at any Law Enforcement Agency, they have specific “training” whether it is called defensive tactics, self defense, or what ever. In a POST certified agency such as Police and Sheriffs their training is intense. They may use their tactics as much as a prison officer but is less likely. I know that inmates ARE criminals and ARE in better shape than the general public. So WHY would any of this nations prison Officers allow their department to short change their life?

Departments have been sucessfuly sued by officers and family of fallen officers for lack of training. This is a cost savings idea, give a little up front, save in the end. Our of our lives, whether it is on the street or in the block is worth more than just adequate. If this were allowed, a BB gun for our New York Cops will be better than nothing if the legislators get away with it.

Dont be rude, but speak up, ask questions, make good suggestions, see what your local departments do as well as other state prisons. Look to California, they do not mess around.

 
Male user Wiseguy 12 posts

My department has specific self defense training. It is no where near adequate for the potential dangers we face but its better than nothing.

 
Male user Canusxiii 116 posts

As far as I know,talking to other officers in my prison.Hapkido,Akido,Jeet Kune do,Kra-maga.What work for me so far is knowing the body pressure points.Judo or Juite-Juso,I think I spell it right,for
ground work.
Common sense too!Never let the inmate let you escalate the fight.I almost hit am inmate once for calling a female officer a Bitch,keep my cool,He got lock up for abusive to staff,Plus I think he said
“I am going to kill you.”CREATIVE WRITING"…..

 
100 5886 Sarge276 45 posts

samson.sam39 said “yaahhh you right the horse only in a lowland not in the water…..”

What the huh?!?

 
Female user samson.sam39 1 post

yaahhh you right the horse only in a lowland not in the water…..

 
100 5886 Sarge276 45 posts

Not to get off the original question, but since we’re on the subject of self defense… A buddy showed me a video he found on kokar kempo. Anyone heard of it? If so what’s your take on it?

 
Female user JC 1 post

I think it is a great way to improve yourself. Do you want to run around the yard karate chopping inmates, probably not. I would say Disciplines that start from the defensive state of mind are a good starting place, Aikido, Hapkito, etc. then maybe jujitsu for the ground stuff, or something.

Your employer is liable for you acting on their behalf, so they can only teach you what falls within the laws guidelines.

I would say its all in what you say and write. So, you take martial arts to learn discipline, stay in shape, gain quicker reflexes, and improve yourself, right? It certainly would NOT be to kick inmate butt. See what i’m saying? If you are attacked by an inmate, and you attempt to apply physical strengths & holds, and it fails to stop the threat, then you escalate. If you attempted to stop an inmate from attacking another inmate and you ‘grabbed his hand and applied forward pressure forcing the inmate, by the weight of his own body to tumble to the ground’ is that wrong? But if you said well they were fighting and I did a karate move on the guy and flipped him over. Both statements are the truth, neither is a lie. One statement is better writing, and more understandable to your supervisors and anyone else that might be liable for your actions. Do you practice martial arts at work, no you don’t. Does it help you better do your job, yes it does.

If you were to be attacked by an inmate, AND YOU FEARED FOR YOUR LIFE, and you reacted without thinking to defend yourself because you thought you would be killed, then you did the right thing. Are you lying, no. Are you telling the truth, yes. Then you did the right thing, and the martial arts that you learned had no ill effects on your job. Panic is not the word to use, its “I defended myself the best way I knew how, I thought he was going to kill me”. Martial Arts is to better understand your own limitations, and for you to be better able to defend your own life.

 
Male user Niv 12 posts

Very true, with that saild how many out there in the leo field can actually get out of an RNC. Doing the move is as simple as 1,2,3 look on you tube theres tons of kids doing it to each other, now what about adults or even Inmates.Im useing this move as an example of " Whats yet to come". get out isvery trickey and as some practiceoners say dont get in it.

 
Male user Gunfighter 21 posts

If an inmate applies a rear naked choke your have fallen into a position in which only true prepared and knowledgable fighter can get out of. This application of a true technique in which we rarely is ever train to defend will be the death or unbearable beating of an officer in the near future. Prevent the application and prevent the beat down. This fighting technique is practiced by inmates more than any other.

 
Male user Niv 12 posts

Very good article , I think that your training should be the same as the inmate , they sit around all day exercise more often than the C/O and think or plot attacks all day long were the C/O is trying to do his job and stay within the guide lines/Rules ETC… You should always have A good sense of counters that are effective NOT pretty even BJJ is getting to common , UFC is showing us that Wrestler’s are whippin most BJJ BLACK BELT’s . My advice pick an effective fight style BJJ, Muai Thai , Karate(nontraditional),Kajukenbo, even Eskrima Stick and knife fighting,Practice it at least twice A week if not more and try to stay in good shape.This applies to any work Corectional or Not even every day street. When some grabs your back and pulls a R.N.C (rear naked choke) that they seen a UFC star do last weekend on you , let me tell you about 90% will not know what to do within 8 seconds until blackout.

 
Male user Gunfighter 21 posts

http://www.corrections.com/tracy_barnhart/?p=127

Read My Article that should give you some answers to your question.

Tracy

 
Male user Niv 12 posts

Yeah very true thats why in the book I recommend they talk about “when” and “when not” to use deadly force, When you try to subdue A person rules of law’s apply , when you try to fight for your life good training becomes second nature and it is hard to seaperate the two……….one will save your life at a costly expense that money can’t buy.

 
Buckeye flag Mudflap 293 posts

I have always been instructed to FORGET any self defense methods except for what is taught. They don’t want one person doing something one way and another person doing the same thing differently. If I don’t react the way the state teaches, I’m wrong… unless I’m in “panic” mode.

 
Male user Niv 12 posts

Wow, MMA thats intresting , as the UFC grows into the most popular fight sport it will take young ghetto kids into the New Pop Culture.They grow to be criminals and watch it on tv and it becomes second nature . Years ago boxing was the only thing most people familiarized with. Our local Kaju gym has won all local MMA events which they dont really like doing….I highly recommend picking up A copy of Loren W. Christensen’ s Fighters Fact Book 1 and 2 . Good stuff about the world of Violence and knife disarming

 
Mccorquodale badge FOPvp1az2rsk 2 posts

Use what the inmates are learning, MMA. Inmates in Arizona are constantly practicing from tv MMA. Best thing I can tell you is take a combative style martial arts that practices with multiple attackers such as Krav Maga, Russian style of Savate, Jiu Jitsu,ect. The pretty stuff is just that and not much for the real worl.

Being in shape to take on the countries strongest and most athletic phsyco’s bunnies.

 
Flag shakey 191 posts

Hey, that pretty cool looking stuff looks great when they play it back at a use of force hearing. If your not in good shape don’t rip off your shirt like Bruce Lee though, they don’t like to see short, bald, fat guys with hairy chest buncing around.

AAeeeee….judo chop…..judo chop…kick…kick

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